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Is this a form of divination or is this some weird astral connection?


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#1 BirdieMcCloud

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:40 AM

Ok, I've tried writing this several times and each time it just sounds dumb, so here it is, in all its basic silliness. I've been 'meeting' someone when I meditate/go Otherside that I don't personally know in real life. Through our conversations I've learned random facts and bits about him that have proven to be true/accurate when I make research inquiries in real life.

Is this a form of divination (through a projected thoughtform I interact with)? Is this a form of conversation/connection with someone/thing (masquerading as said person) instead of some form of clairsentience? How do I tell the difference?


#2 Jevne

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:58 AM

Divination is a means of knowing the unknown (past, present, or future). What you are doing is communicating with someone or something, which is technically not divining. On the other hand, you could be divining these "facts" of his life from some outside source and assigning them in your psyche to a person. You said research inquiries. Does that mean this is like a famous person or just some guy you know of, but don't know personally.

#3 Wexler

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 04:10 AM

I'm curious about how you would do fact checking if you don't know this person in real life? I wonder if he is an acquaintance or someone you are connected to in some way? (Like the friend of a coworker).

I typically see divination as a skill that requires some level of natural talent, training, and/or intuition. I would not consider having a conversation with a spirit to be divination, because even if it takes talent/training/et cetera to get to that meditative place, the spirit is just telling you things. It's just a conversation.

Also, to me, I think of divination as being my own ability to read abstract energies/flows/forces and interpret them as concrete concepts, facts, or ideas. Entities or other beings may provide information equal to what I could divine, but just in terms of semantics I wouldn't call it divination because I am not really "divining", I am just listening to what I am being told. Even when I use a classic divination tool like my tarot cards to speak to spirits, I consider that a tool to facilitate conversation, not divining.

I think in the end, for me it comes down to semantics. I think this is an interesting post from you Birdie as I recall you saying you have had trouble with divining in the past (stalker alert :P). Perhaps your strength in finding unknown information would lie more with spirit contact? I don't have much practical experience with that past getting my toes wet, but I feel that could have a great deal of potential.

'Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.'

'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.'

 

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#4 BirdieMcCloud

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 05:15 AM

It's a famous, still living person that I am highly unlikely to meet in person in my lifetime (and frankly, I'm skeptical it *is* him I'm actually talking to), so the world wide web has been helpful in getting confirmations that what I'm getting is the truth. I honestly hadn't paid much attention to his life before this past week, but the random conversations and then research confirming stuff 'he's' telling me made me wonder if this was a case of my getting information from a source possibly wearing his face, or if this was an internal thing.

Also, to me, I think of divination as being my own ability to read abstract energies/flows/forces and interpret them as concrete concepts, facts, or ideas. Entities or other beings may provide information equal to what I could divine, but just in terms of semantics I wouldn't call it divination because I am not really "divining", I am just listening to what I am being told. Even when I use a classic divination tool like my tarot cards to speak to spirits, I consider that a tool to facilitate conversation, not divining.


Yep, I'm pants at divination, or at least so far. I like the way you stated it, semantics or otherwise. It's interesting to me that I can get verifiable info from spirits or otherwise but seem to be personally devoid of any divination skills. Pfft. Huh. I'm surprised to find that I'm kind of bummed that this might just be more confirmation that I'm future-blind. Grass is always greener, I guess...


#5 Jevne

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 05:49 AM

I venture to guess that it is a combination of information coming from an outside source and your psyche's natural tendency to assign a name/face to ambiguous input. Regardless, there is some message being conveyed. Maybe, those random facts are not so random. By concentrating on the who, you may be missing out on the what.

BTW, not everyone has the same skills or gifts. It is not a weakness to be shit at divination, as not everyone has the gift of foresight or cognition. Anyone who claims they have mastered it "all", especially magically, is full of crap.

Hell, I couldn't "heal" on my own, if my life, literally, depended on it. LOL!


#6 Wexler

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:38 PM

It's a famous, still living person that I am highly unlikely to meet in person in my lifetime (and frankly, I'm skeptical it *is* him I'm actually talking to), so the world wide web has been helpful in getting confirmations that what I'm getting is the truth. I honestly hadn't paid much attention to his life before this past week, but the random conversations and then research confirming stuff 'he's' telling me made me wonder if this was a case of my getting information from a source possibly wearing his face, or if this was an internal thing.


Yep, I'm pants at divination, or at least so far. I like the way you stated it, semantics or otherwise. It's interesting to me that I can get verifiable info from spirits or otherwise but seem to be personally devoid of any divination skills. Pfft. Huh. I'm surprised to find that I'm kind of bummed that this might just be more confirmation that I'm future-blind. Grass is always greener, I guess...


I don't think being future blind means you can't necessarily find out the future... you just can't use your own eyes! :cool_witch:

'Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.'

'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.'

 

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#7 BirdieMcCloud

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 05:10 AM

I venture to guess that it is a combination of information coming from an outside source and your psyche's natural tendency to assign a name/face to ambiguous input. Regardless, there is some message being conveyed. Maybe, those random facts are not so random. By concentrating on the who, you may be missing out on the what.


I do tend to ask who I'm dealing with; most times I get an answer and rarely I get a "It doesn't matter, but hi and BTW here's something for you to chew on."
Not sure what the message in this case is beyond I apparently am capable of seriously fangirling someone. I've had my cases of (serious) hero worship, but it's never been to this point and it's starting to irritate me because it's terribly impractical.

Edited by BirdieMcCloud, 23 June 2013 - 05:11 AM.


#8 Wexler

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:52 AM

I do tend to ask who I'm dealing with; most times I get an answer and rarely I get a "It doesn't matter, but hi and BTW here's something for you to chew on."
Not sure what the message in this case is beyond I apparently am capable of seriously fangirling someone. I've had my cases of (serious) hero worship, but it's never been to this point and it's starting to irritate me because it's terribly impractical.

Irritating?! To have one-on-one conversations with someone you are seriously fangirling on? I say milk it for all it's worth! I'm sure you're living out the fantasy of a thousand fangirls less lucky than you! But then, that's just what I would do... :whistling:

'Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.'

'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.'

 

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#9 Belwenda

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 05:33 PM

So... are you learning anything that is important and relevant to you?
"For there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" W.S.

#10 Michele

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:38 PM

If you're crossing into the other world (the spirit world) then I don't understand why someone who is still living is there (unless this person is a witch and crosses on a regular basis. Which makes me wonder if it is this famous person it says it is.)

The other thing that comes to mind is what do you state when you go... do you just go, or do you state why you are going, for what reason, what you are looking to gain, and who can help with that? What do you give this thing in return? Has it asked for anything at this point besides attention? Has its demands for attention gotten more demanding? Has it come looking for you when you're not "out looking"? Does it request that you go meet it? Does it tell you exactly who and what it is? What has it asked of you (I find that things rarely give something for nothing...)

M

Edited by Michele, 23 June 2013 - 09:39 PM.


#11 Jevne

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:49 PM

If you're crossing into the other world (the spirit world) then I don't understand why someone who is still living is there (unless this person is a witch and crosses on a regular basis. Which makes me wonder if it is this famous person it says it is.)
. . .


All really good comments and questions, Michele. Granted, I really do not know that many "famous" people, so I can't be certain, but I doubt the actual person, even if they are a Witch (which is doubtful, too) would contact a person they do not know. No offense intended to the OP, of course.


#12 BirdieMcCloud

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:14 AM

All really good comments and questions, Michele. Granted, I really do not know that many "famous" people, so I can't be certain, but I doubt the actual person, even if they are a Witch (which is doubtful, too) would contact a person they do not know. No offense intended to the OP, of course.




None taken; makes more sense to me than it being the actual person. Ergo my thinking this is likely just something wearing a recognizable skin, which is a new thing for me - usually they have their own 'faces' that aren't based in anything I recognize from real life.

As for whether I'm learning anything relevant to myself - yeah, surprisingly. For one thing, I discovered my stance on being childfree may not be as fixed as I thought. Not actually sure how I feel about that sudden change, but...life is full of surprises?

To respond to M's questions best I can because they're worth thinking about:The other thing that comes to mind is what do you state when you go... do you just go, or do you state why you are going, for what reason, what you are looking to gain, and who can help with that?

This varies drastically. Mostly I'm just pulled elsewhere for some reason or other (or redirected to where I should be going), and sometimes I set out with a goal or need of my own. When encountering this being, it's more of a pull than an active seeking.

What do you give this thing in return? Has it asked for anything at this point besides attention? Has its demands for attention gotten more demanding? Has it come looking for you when you're not "out looking"?

So far, they've only given me minor bits of information (and some really good conversation), and I've given them honest answers to questions they have for me (including the bizarre realization that I may not be so adamantly childfree as I thought). He sought me out a little more assertively yesterday, mainly because I keep falling back on the 'are you real or am I imagining things' track.

Mainly we've established through our last conversation that I doubt that he is who he claims he is, and I'm probably not who he sees me as either. There's weird...restrictions when talking to him; I can't express myself freely all the time, as there are certain things where it's like *I'm* serving as a mask for something/someone else responding to his queries.

I'm so sorry, I don't think I'm making much sense. :/

Edit for argh paragraphs.

Edited by BirdieMcCloud, 24 June 2013 - 04:16 AM.


#13 Michele

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:13 PM

... Mostly I'm just pulled elsewhere for some reason or other (or redirected to where I should be going), and sometimes I set out with a goal or need of my own. When encountering this being, it's more of a pull than an active seeking...

This for me would be a worry. And I am only speaking here from conversations I have had, not from experience, as I don't cross (I have no wards for crossing, and I have no reason to cross into the spirit world anyway). But control is an issue. To be continually "taken" without one's own intent or permission (or to have one's intent changed) can be seen as a lack of control of the situation, which leaves one open to things that would have an interest in playing games... it letting "others" have the upper-hand, and is letting things that might watch (especially if you really ARE crossing and entering their world) know that you are not in control and can therefore be "controlled."

So far, they've only given me minor bits of information (and some really good conversation), and I've given them honest answers to questions they have for me (including the bizarre realization that I may not be so ady childfree as I thought). He sought me out a little more assertively yesterday, mainly because I keep falling back on the 'are you real or am I imagining things' track.

I'd ask point blank exactly how he is, why he cares about whether or not you have kids, and why it is his business. Not being rude, but you have a right to know this. If some guy at the grocery store started questioning your decisions about children, would you just let him and even consider it his business? Things of the other world have no more business in your busiiness unless you have invited them to be in it. Why would he care? If he has no good reason for caring, then I would think twice. They have separate personalities and are not just "good souls" looking to put people on the "right track" unless it is something of a specific tradition you work with, or a specific memory you have been attempting to access and you know the archetype and their ways. It's interest in that is weird to me. If you wouldn't let a stranger ask you those things, then ... welll, this being is a stranger. It's crossing a line of etiquette to me.

Mainly we've established through our last conversation that I doubt that he is who he claims he is, and I'm probably not who he sees me as either. There's weird...restrictions when talking to him; I can't express myself freely all the time, as there are certain things where it's like *I'm* serving as a mask for something/someone else responding to his queries. Then decide if you wish to "serve" this thing, and be his mask, and what you might be telling the other world about yourself in allowing yourself to be manipulated without question or control of what is happening. Try controlling the situation, and see how he responds. And if it's negatively, have a plan.

M

I'm so sorry, I don't think I'm making much sense. :/

Edit for argh paragraphs.



#14 Whiterose

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:15 PM

This for me would be a worry. And I am only speaking here from conversations I have had, not from experience, as I don't cross (I have no wards for crossing, and I have no reason to cross into the spirit world anyway). But control is an issue. To be continually "taken" without one's own intent or permission (or to have one's intent changed) can be seen as a lack of control of the situation, which leaves one open to things that would have an interest in playing games... it letting "others" have the upper-hand, and is letting things that might watch (especially if you really ARE crossing and entering their world) know that you are not in control and can therefore be "controlled."


This strikes true for me. The one time I may have crossed while sleeping and trespassed in to another's territory I was promptly escorted out and given a lecture by a "nicer being" as the other thing came at me in attack mode. Thinking on it now, I would have been dog chow had whatever it was got to me. It was a trip when I had physical marks after I woke up. I wouldn't want to be taken or go there ever again.

I'd ask point blank exactly how he is, why he cares about whether or not you have kids, and why it is his business. Not being rude, but you have a right to know this. If some guy at the grocery store started questioning your decisions about children, would you just let him and even consider it his business? Things of the other world have no more business in your busiiness unless you have invited them to be in it. Why would he care? If he has no good reason for caring, then I would think twice. They have separate personalities and are not just "good souls" looking to put people on the "right track" unless it is something of a specific tradition you work with, or a specific memory you have been attempting to access and you know the archetype and their ways. It's interest in that is weird to me. If you wouldn't let a stranger ask you those things, then ... welll, this being is a stranger. It's crossing a line of etiquette to me.


I think this "kids things" stems more from the sub conscious rather than the other world. As Jevne said, maybe by focusing on the who you are missing the what.


#15 BirdieMcCloud

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:58 AM

The kids thing came up as a matter of conversation with this being/spirit/person, it's not a major message from Overthere. I know it's not probably the politest topic in unfamiliar company, but it's pretty standard for how I relate to people in the mundane world and otherwise. I don't do polite small chat too well, and I rarely know how I got from topic A to topic F; side effect of the whole ADD thing and being a kid who moved around a lot growing up with little time to make friends.

That said, reminders to beef up protections and to get a better handle on my control over the situation are well taken and being practiced (or trying to, at any rate.). :D