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Astral projection to speak to higher self and/or spirits?

astral projection divination

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#81 Oroboros

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 07:04 PM

This is fascinating. I have never really thought or read specifically about the "astral plane". I guess even though I am familiar with the term and astral travel I suppose in my mind there was not necessarily a distinct difference between what is called the ethereal plane vs the astral plane. I guess I thought there different "realms" and more than just two but many. I know when I was LITTLE and at the time it was broken down into "heaven, hell, and wherever ghosts come from" I had an epiphany that rang true in my core and still does. That was a sudden certainty that the ethereal realm is right here, not bound by location, but literally around and even passing through us. And that hauntings and other "supernatural" occurances tend to happen where there are "thin spots" between that realm and ours. I still believe that much is fact. And the fact that that is more or less what several others have said seems to back that up. If anyone can give me some recommended reading on the "astral plane" I would appreciate it as I can tell from reading this thread I am behind on that topic. Based on what I've read here it sounds like it is being referred to as a plane that allows travel from point a to point b in either realm. If it is that, it makes me wonder if it IS the veil. But obviously I am freely admitting I need education on that point. I do think what is a stumbling block to understanding these things is the human tendency to apply the laws of our physical experience to things that are not physical. Location, and dimension, and relative position don't apply here I don't think. I suspect that when we have spiritual visions or travels and there appears to be a change in location or apparent positioning in these matters it may just be our consciousness filtering something that would be otherwise unfathonable into a picture we can grasp. The mind would not know what to do with pure unaltered information if it had no comparison to our knowledge or previous experience. I tell you compared to the few online discussions I have participated in in the past there are some very insightful, well read, and truly knowledgeable people on here. What a gift to have found.
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...From ev’ry depth of good and ill , The mystery which binds me still...— Poe

#82 Natty

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 05:31 PM

What wonderful insight, Oro......I read something by Arthur C Clark and he puts it like this: "magic is science we just don't understand yet". I totally understand what you mean by the human tendency to need to apply the laws of the physical.

I had a similar epiphany when I was about 7 years old. I was laying in bed and suddenly I had this overwhelming knowledge of life, the universe and everything in between. Sadly it was a momentary experience and by the time my brain had caught up with what was going on it had gone. I couldn't recall or put into words any of it. I spoke to my dad and he said the same thing had happened to him at a young age too. Anyway that's slightly off topic.

I really enjoyed what you have to say!

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#83 Oroboros

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 08:46 PM

What wonderful insight, Oro......I read something by Arthur C Clark and he puts it like this: "magic is science we just don't understand yet". I totally understand what you mean by the human tendency to need to apply the laws of the physical.

I had a similar epiphany when I was about 7 years old. I was laying in bed and suddenly I had this overwhelming knowledge of life, the universe and everything in between. Sadly it was a momentary experience and by the time my brain had caught up with what was going on it had gone. I couldn't recall or put into words any of it. I spoke to my dad and he said the same thing had happened to him at a young age too. Anyway that's slightly off topic.

I really enjoyed what you have to say!
---------------------------------------------
Thanks :smile: ... What is it about kids though? I had all manor of weird shit going on around me when I was a kid. Then, one of my daughters saw "people" in her room from the time she could talk until very recently (she also saw something she called "the man" when she was little and Im pretty damn sure I saw him as a child too, but that is another story) (she is 18 now)... Kids and animals, know things in a purer way than the rest of us tend to. The only reason I can come up with is maybe at the very beginning of life and then at the end of life our spirit is the closest it will ever be while on this plane to being united with. well, wherever they came from- we'll say the spirit realm.. (to try to name that brings on a whole other topic.) Anyway, Im curious if you have thoughts on what thats about. Im not sure I subscribe to the theory I just suggested because that may require a linear time relationship and Im not sure thats how spirit works. If it is simply a matter of being conditioned to ignore and disbelieve as we are trained to function in the physical world- Oh what we could achieve if we could go back to the childhood quality of seeing and knowing.


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...From ev’ry depth of good and ill , The mystery which binds me still...— Poe

#84 Natty

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 10:29 PM

I have often thought the same thing about going back. I think we are born so receptive to these things and become 'normalised' by everyday life and routine. My daughter was exactly the same too - she's almost 17 now. She once described to me a man sitting under an apple tree with a hat on. I went up to loft and pulled out an old box of photos containing one of my paternal grandfather in that exact pose.

I'm going to give what you said about the ether and astral planes some more thought and get back to you. I'm keen to explore this loads more!

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#85 Oroboros

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 11:04 PM

As for your quote- Yes exactly! It is funny to me how science eventually catches up with things healers and shamans have known for centuries- and been ridiculed for. Then one day a scientist discovers WHY it is true and then all of the sudden it is validated. Worse, why is it that once science can explain something we tend to think of it as no longer magical. Like the Christians and evolution...Why couldn't the creator have designed evolution and still be the creator? I'd say it would validate "his" credentials as god to have the foresight to make life in a way that can adapt to survive and thrive. - sorry, bad habit of asides.
Anyway, science we don't understand yet:) : http://discovermagaz...leave-your-body

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...From ev’ry depth of good and ill , The mystery which binds me still...— Poe

#86 birdiejoy83

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 11:11 PM

Be careful. The last time i did that i ran across an incubus
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#87 BeanSiFiain

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 10:52 PM

(o dear I can't keep up with this thread, there is soooo much!!)

 I know a lot of this is old, but I want to get to be a part of this conversation so bad right now.

As I am reading through this thread, I am wondering as to the original purpose of the activities being discussed here. I know the OP mentioned communicating with the higher self for divination purposes. I do not work with concepts of higher self, so I am uncertain if that is common terminology and usage in other paths or not. I am familiar with a variety of divination methods and tools, but that particular association is unfamiliar to me, personally. Of course, it may just be the OP's personal inspiration, which is super cool. Even so, I am left wondering how contacting a higher self serves a purpose within the Craft.

Along the same lines, what purposes are traditionally associated with the elaborate visualizations and meditations being described in some of the posts. From reading other posts, I understand that visualization is a component of many Witch's spellwork, as they elect to manifest magic through first visualizing their intended outcome. If it works for you . . . Awesome!

For those who use meditation, especially those that involve vivid, location imagery, how does that specific type contribute to your Craft? Is it about the actual practice of Witchcraft and more about self (personal or psychological) benefit and peace of mind, as was implied in a few of the posts? I am curious.

 

Personally, I have never had any particular interest in meditation. However I have discovered it as a useful practice to create a memory path for my future hedge journeys. I did not begin meditating for the purpose of finding some self enlightenment but rather as a tool to train myself for a greater journey. That being said, I don't think anyone practices any manner of religious, spiritual, or otherwise mystical engagement for any reason but the self, largely. Even altruism is of the self.

 

Someone asked if these waking astral projections are the same as the dream journeys. I wonder this myself. I vaguely believe that astral projection and deep meditation and hedge crossing are all hairs on the same head. However, I have not experienced vivid dreams for some time, and I have never had a lucid dream. I cannot say that in my experience, my dreams are journeys. If anything, my dreams, if I have then, seem more often than not to be amalgamations of reflections on prior experiences, and prophecies about the state of my mental and emotional health in the coming days. ugh.  

As far as I know, it is the astral body that leaves, but not totally. The astral body is one refinement more than the physical body, but is still physical and houses the spirit. The astral body remains connected to the physical body by an etheric cord (silver cord). Any discomfort or disturbance, and boom one is back in one's body with a resounding shudder...not pleasant.

 

I dont conform to the system of astral projection, but as I said above, I think its basically the same thing as the other modes of spirit travel were discussing. But its totally true that every time I get an itch, or my dog starts making a tumult, or whatever, BOOM back in my body, but not always that resounding shudder. Sometimes its like I've still got a foot in that other place, and I can bounce right back. I am getting better at it as I practice.

 

 

Someone also suggested the use of hallucinogens was either an indication of a fake, or the lack there of was... I forget its a page back from where I'm looking right now.. Again I will only speak of my experience:

 

In my many years on this planet I have used both legal and illegal and often unsafe flora, fungi, and manmade chemical aides (not recommended ever.) to experience the physical realm in an altered state. Ancient wisdoms dictated similar practices as rites and communal rituals and blah blah blah... There is no reason that a practicing witch of any tradition on any path could not also use these effects to their own will in practice. In fact, from what I can tell, hedge craft is pretty well documented historically compared to many other witchy practices of the modern world.  I in fact intend to use the herbs I'm growing this year to assist my journeys across later, once I feel I'm ready for the profoundness I assume awaits there...  There is danger in the use of healing herbs as much as in poisonous herbs. There is danger in all magic in all witches and pretenders. Well, at least thats how I understand things..

 

 

 

pffffff..... I still haven't finished reading this thread..tbc.......


Edited by BeanSiFiain, 10 March 2018 - 10:57 PM.

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#88 Zombee

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 09:54 PM

I've been using a technique of creating an imaginary place and meeting guides or spirits in that place. Symbolically it matters whether the visualized approach is descending (for meeting spirits) or ascending (for meeting higher self or god-forms). Other than those 2 distinctions, the imagination has free reign to design the power-place. It's like Mary Poppins' carpet bag in which whatever is needed is immediately at hand. Visualizing the same approach and return route builds the visualization into a mental construction that gets easier to maintain with every repetition. It seems to provide the imagery the mind needs to bring stability and reliable connections.
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#89 witchinplainsight

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:44 AM

Zombee that's the approach we are taught in shamanic work too - the lower world is for meeting power animals, the upper world for meeting spirit guides. The mind seems to automatically remember and follow the same paths too.

 

I've worked more in the lower world and middle world so far (middle world for healing work or past life work). When I made an upper world journey I saw a teacher but couldn't hear what he was saying. It was very frustrating - like watching a film with the sound turned down. His lips were moving but I couldn't get the sound. Anyone else had this kind of experience or found anything that helps? 


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#90 Zombee

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 05:15 PM

Yes, but it's been so long ago (50 years) I can't recall if it was anything more than just keep reaching out from center to wrap myself within the entity presence with fierce determination. Standing by and waiting for contact didnt make it happen. I had to open a com-link so I could hear.

Edited by Zombee, 12 March 2018 - 05:18 PM.

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#91 witchinplainsight

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 10:18 PM

I like the fierce determination thing :) That's the kick up the backside I needed!
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#92 BeanSiFiain

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 11:58 AM

Zombee that's the approach we are taught in shamanic work too - the lower world is for meeting power animals, the upper world for meeting spirit guides. The mind seems to automatically remember and follow the same paths too.

 

I've worked more in the lower world and middle world so far (middle world for healing work or past life work). When I made an upper world journey I saw a teacher but couldn't hear what he was saying. It was very frustrating - like watching a film with the sound turned down. His lips were moving but I couldn't get the sound. Anyone else had this kind of experience or found anything that helps? 

 

plain sight; I've had a similar experience. being just a sprout in this practice, you must consider it with a bit of salt but: on one of my first journeys to this place I've been exploring, I saw a man waiting for me. frankly I think I put him there by accident, a side effect of video games, but I made not of him anyhow. I had a sense that he was speaking to me. I could not make entirely clear images in this place yet, and I get better every journey, so I could not tell if his mouth was moving. I could not hear what he may have been saying, just the sounds of the scenery. but I had a sense, if you can understand, that there was a message on the air between us, however an insignificant message it happened to be. I have not come to this experience again yet. Though I put no true concern on it as I felt no urgency at all.

I've been using a technique of creating an imaginary place and meeting guides or spirits in that place. Symbolically it matters whether the visualized approach is descending (for meeting spirits) or ascending (for meeting higher self or god-forms). Other than those 2 distinctions, the imagination has free reign to design the power-place. It's like Mary Poppins' carpet bag in which whatever is needed is immediately at hand. Visualizing the same approach and return route builds the visualization into a mental construction that gets easier to maintain with every repetition. It seems to provide the imagery the mind needs to bring stability and reliable connections.

 

zombie; this is basically the technique I have started with, however in descending levels within, rather than ever actually changing direction. the guide I am using for these initial goes at it explains it as if its a sort heroes journey within yourself. She doesn't say that, I just feel like she frames it up in that sort of package. in the 'spiritual system' for lack of a better term, I am currently studying, this is very close to the truth. the idea is basically that since one is an organic mass of and from the earth, within the soul is world filled with the wisdom of the ancestors waiting for the individual soul to explore its depths again. Its really quite striking, both beautiful and horrifying. this place is fully explorable, seemingly without boundary, and I think without the guide I might stray on some curious jaunt about. I think I should learn some discipline. :b


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#93 BeanSiFiain

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 12:03 PM

perhaps descending levels might not be the right way of explaining it. its more like traveling on a map, going deeper, but not lower. like deeper into a jungle rather than deeper into the ocean. 

however this has been my only experience with meditation so far, so like I said to plain sight, flavor my words with salt.


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#94 Zombee

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:27 PM

I simply use an up or down stairs or escalator visualization as mental exercise to nudge the spiritual action. Centering for me is pulling awareness within to my energy-body while my mental screen is a blank slate. It's peaceful.

Something I've had luck with is visualizing raising a spiraling stream of energy from the earth & sending it like releasing the cone of power to a destination, then I imagine I ride the stream/cone. I've used this to help get out of body and combine it with the special place visualization sometimes.

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