Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Divination, What Do You Believe?


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
56 replies to this topic

#41 hermit

hermit

    Member

  • Seekers
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts

Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:12 PM

When we try to predict the future, are we...
—predicting a specific individual event?
— predicting the possibilities of the probabilities?

If a weather forecast says "rain for tomorrow" it is foolish to expect otherwise even tough it still may not happen.
In a similar manner, the same goes if you see a vision of yourself wet from the rain. The information is there and it is obvious for the brain, that builds a series of images or feelings out of it, and you still need to interpretate...the whole sci-fi time travelling aspect of divination seems to me like a complication of the simple unconscious perception.

—are we facilitating certain events to happen?

Sure, why not? "Luck" is a concept that many witches disregard (I wonder why ...), but for me luck is the same as "the potential of being successfull".
Every potential energy is a energy that litteraly don't exist. It builds up out of events and other energies until it's release, and therefore should be the easiest to manipulate. Maybe not easy to build up enough until you get what you want out of it, but still...


#42 Autumn Moon

Autumn Moon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,050 posts

Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:01 AM

Autumn Moon:

I can appreciate your assessment of the power of divination. Your comment regarding someone's "position in the situation" is really what it comes down to for me. This is why I say that I am not out to change the whole damn world. I know the size of my sphere of influence and work within those parameters. I don't have a problem with the fact that I do not get premonitions of world catastrophes or divinatory insight into global pain and suffering, because I understand that complexity that you speak of. Being a social creature, I feel for those in need or strife, just like any other human being, but without the direct connection to the people or situation(s), my ability to impact change is limited. That being said, I have been personally called to some issues, but usually not through divinatory means.

Jevne


Thanks Jevne.

What your post had to say is why I like doing divination, but at other times I do not like it. That is, when I see a situation that cannot be changed and which taxes my empath emotions, then I do not like it.

Your post was very nicely put and outlines my thoughts on the subject(s).


#43 Roanna

Roanna

    She of the spiders and degus...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 713 posts

Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:06 AM

Sure, why not? "Luck" is a concept that many witches disregard (I wonder why ...), but for me luck is the same as "the potential of being successfull".


I wonder sometimes if "what we term "luck" is actually magic on a sub conscious level? In the years before I acknowledged my own path as a witch and before I crossed over to practising as a witch, I was still performing magic and manipulating my life and that of those around me. I didn't call it magic, I just thought I was a pretty lucky kind of person. But looking back I can see the hand of my own influence in what I was happy to term "lucky."

Maybe there is truth in the old saying that you make your own luck.....

Do what you believe to be the right thing and trust yourself.

Witchpathforward My website incorporating "Ask a Witch a Question," my blog and websites of witchy interest.

#44 hermit

hermit

    Member

  • Seekers
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts

Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:23 AM

While reading books about norse runes i stumbled upon the concept of "orlog". In this case the magician had to transfer his luck through his breath to the object, in a lenghty ritual to make a talisman, but the author would often replace the term "luck" with "orlog".
With some further research i found out that "orlog" can also mean "primal law", "primal state" or "governing law"(fate???).
I eventually adapted the ritual in a fast spell/quirk/habit in wich i improve my luck in winning small contests... very similar of how dice player in Casinos do in movies, blowing air in their hands before throwing their dices.


#45 aurora

aurora

    Senior Member

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,690 posts

Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:12 PM

And?

Do tell,don't keep a girl waiting.


#46 hermit

hermit

    Member

  • Seekers
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts

Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:28 PM

And?

Do tell,don't keep a girl waiting.


I'm confused...you ask i write more about the orlog?
I understand that the old norse may find reassurance in the concept of "fate", while the modern person enjoy the concept of "free will"... I, in the other hand try not to think of either when thinking about divination. See:

If a weather forecast says "rain for tomorrow" it is foolish to expect otherwise even tough it still may not happen.
In a similar manner, the same goes if you see a vision of yourself wet from the rain. The information is there and it is obvious for the brain, that builds a series of images or feelings out of it, and you still need to interpretate...the whole sci-fi time travelling aspect of divination seems to me like a complication of the simple unconscious perception.


Orlog also means "governing law", in other words... a few outcomes are aways obvious out of a situation even before the situation started(a stone with round shape will always roll down the hill). A man who builds a wall leaves behind several details about himself because no two people builds a wall the same way... but when the conscious mind sees the wall it doesn't see anything but a wall. The unconscious mind, in the other hand, is the simpler part of the mind... and is also where the distinction between universe and individuality is further blurred.
In conclusion : in the unconscious mind no detail is overlooked therefore every outcome becomes obvious... that's all.


#47 aurora

aurora

    Senior Member

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,690 posts

Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:52 PM

No silly ( giggle). Do you win your contests.

#48 hermit

hermit

    Member

  • Seekers
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts

Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:28 PM

Ohhh...okay.
The first one is when i enchanted a coupon to win myself a new karate gi, and after that i did the same to win some credit money in my cellphone, then i tried the lottery...
The last one didn't work, probably because the first two had around 10 to 5 percent of chance, while the last was much smaller.
Since then i only used it to cheat in card games(12 victories in a row) and open tricky locks, works for me, but not always.


#49 Guinevere

Guinevere

    Newbie

  • Seekers
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 17 April 2013 - 10:57 PM

When i use Tarot for divination my impression is that i'm not predicting events but that i'm predicting forces and how them will combine. All our actions will lead to a result, sometimes they're not clear and sometimes, as we're humans, we fail and need an advice or an escuse to meditate on what's happening. This is the main reason why i ask to an oracle to help me, to get an overview of what's going on and how i can act to reach my goal with the best result.

#50 Jevne

Jevne

    Former Member

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,441 posts

Posted 18 April 2013 - 12:02 AM

. . . This is the main reason why i ask to an oracle to help me, to get an overview of what's going on and how i can act to reach my goal with the best result.


"With the best result" could be interpreted in several ways. For me, the best result is the result that I want, which may or may not be what others, even my trusted Guardians or family members want or think is best. Of course, having an overview is important and it is not always prudent to completely ignore advice. At the same time, once I have made up my mind, I really don't want someone intervening.


#51 CelticGypsy

CelticGypsy

    Crazy NastyAss Honey Badger

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,105 posts

Posted 18 April 2013 - 12:37 AM

I have to agree with Jevne here on this, as when I utilize the Tarot for a specific concern, it gives me options/overviews.

I don't dilly dally about making a decision then, I pick the best one towards my personal outcome, being aware of possible

responsibilities in which I need to take, to ensue that what I want, I shall have.


Regards,
Gypsy

" The last thing you wanted a Witch to do is get bored and start making her own amusements, because Witches sometimes have erratically famous ideas about what was amusing "

 

Terry Pratchett Legends 1 


#52 Willau

Willau

    Member

  • Seekers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 225 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:31 AM

I see divination as a tool for further insight. A tool is a tool.... ;)

#53 Autumn Moon

Autumn Moon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,050 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:06 PM

Some tools are better yielded by some :wink:

Edited by Autumn Moon, 19 April 2013 - 05:07 PM.


#54 Wexler

Wexler

    Something wrong? Blame retrograde

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,109 posts

Posted 17 May 2013 - 04:04 PM

I use divination very rarely to see the future, and if it is predictive, usually it is a few hours or a day or two in advance. I primarily use my cards to find information in the present or recent past. I am finding now that I'm a few serious steps in to my path, I am developing a talent for getting cards that inflate my ego rather than share anything useful. Fortunately the two states of mind ("seeing" versus bullying the tarot in to giving me what I want) are very different and easily identifiable from each other - usually after the fact, unfortunately.

In regards to how divination works, when it comes to predicting the future I agree with Michele's first post (we see future possibilities most likely to happen). Where this information comes from I am yet experimenting with and continually trying to understand. So far, I believe that when I read normally, I reach out into the world and feel the energies involved in the situation, and conduit that information through myself and into the cards. When I attempt to use the tarot to receive information from specific sources (such as spirits/entities), the rituals around my reading noticeably change, almost like speaking to someone in a different language. I've also noticed that when I attempt to read on certain people who are distrustful of me or dislike me, the cards display what they would like me to see, not the actual truth of the matter. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I don't have too many people in my life who feel this way towards me, so I am having trouble experimenting with how I can break through the glamour, so to speak.

When it comes to actually predicting the future, I feel like the majority of small and personal events that we experience are easily swayed and changed. To me, the less significant the event, the easier it is to change, therefore it is more likely to change without any intentional effort on anyone's part. So it would be pretty silly to try and read about what you'll be having for lunch in fifty days, because that's such an insignificant event so easily swayed by many unforeseen factors. On the other hand, researching what your boss is planning on talking about during the big surprise meeting tomorrow may produce much more definite and tangible results.

'Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.'

'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.'

 

[avatar source]


#55 Aurelian

Aurelian

    The Devils Enabler

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,561 posts

Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:40 PM

I don't bother with divination, it has never worked for me. I enforce my will, as magic does. Hope for the best, and if you fuck it up, work it again!
"The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning." - Cormac McCarthy

#56 Jevne

Jevne

    Former Member

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,441 posts

Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:23 AM

I don't bother with divination, it has never worked for me. I enforce my will, as magic does. Hope for the best, and if you fuck it up, work it again!


While divination does work for me, I am not hooked on it. I ran into a situation recently that just wasn't clear enough in my premonitions for me to comfortably make a decision on the direction I wanted to take, so I pulled out the cards, but generally, I push forward without worrying about what "could" be or what "should" be and go straight for what I want to happen.


#57 Michele

Michele

    The Exiled Goddess

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7,033 posts

Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:55 AM

While reading books about norse runes i stumbled upon the concept of "orlog". In this case the magician had to transfer his luck through his breath to the object, in a lenghty ritual to make a talisman, but the author would often replace the term "luck" with "orlog".
With some further research i found out that "orlog" can also mean "primal law", "primal state" or "governing law"(fate???).
I eventually adapted the ritual in a fast spell/quirk/habit in wich i improve my luck in winning small contests... very similar of how dice player in Casinos do in movies, blowing air in their hands before throwing their dices.


My understanding of Orlog is that it is related to memory... to know what is coming by how things have become in the past (and not necessarily the recent, or even recent generations past). That the "telling of the Orlog" is based on accessing memories of how situations are most likely to become if there is no intervention or change in action. But it is not just divining, but understanding how the future is becoming (or most likely to become) from past experiences "written" within the tradition.

Fate, as in my understanding, are the things one can not change. Like death. We are all fated to die one day, one can't change that. Death hunts us, and will eventually catch us. But Orlog, in my understanding is not fate. It is memory passed down, the shield of memory.... which when combined with knowledge of how to interpret it can be used to guide what the future is turning into.

Why would one transfer their luck into an object? It seems to me one would then be that much less in their store of luck. If one wishes to transfer their luck to something else (which can be lost, stolen, given away)... but it doesn't make sense to me????

M

Edited by Michele, 18 May 2013 - 02:58 AM.