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Divination, What Do You Believe?


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#1 Kanena

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:59 AM


When we try to predict the future, are we...

—predicting a specific individual event?
— predicting the possibilities of the probabilities?
or
—are we facilitating certain events to happen?


#2 Kanena

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:02 AM

In the previous post, the font became dark,,,

So I post it again:


When we try to predict the future, are we...
—predicting a specific individual event?
— predicting the possibilities of the probabilities?
or
—are we facilitating certain events to happen?


#3 Jevne

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:11 PM

All of the above, none of the above.

I have answered this question before in another thread, but can't find it right now.

I will look for it later and see if I have anything to add or if I have changed my mind on the subject since posting it.


#4 Michele

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:22 PM

To me we are simply looking at what possible futures there might be and which is most likely to happen if one does nothing to change a situation.

M


#5 seacow

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:26 PM

To me we are simply looking at what possible futures there might be and which is most likely to happen if one does nothing to change a situation.

M


This is exactly how I feel about it.


#6 CelticGypsy

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:31 PM

To me we are simply looking at what possible futures there might be and which is most likely to happen if one does nothing to change a situation.

M


Divination is like that " helicoptor view " that the Witch may have a bigger picture to look at, I think, then make clearer choices as to what benefits the Path and the Witch.


Regards,
Gypsy

" The last thing you wanted a Witch to do is get bored and start making her own amusements, because Witches sometimes have erratically famous ideas about what was amusing "

 

Terry Pratchett Legends 1 


#7 Stacey

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:54 AM

I think it is all of the above, divination shows possible outcomes to a situation, the person then makes the decision to move forward however they feel fits best with the reading and their current situation.
"The mind is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure. Thoughts are not etched on the inside of skulls, to be perused by an invader. The mind is a complex and many-layered thing." Severus Snape - HP and the Order of the Phoenix

#8 Davenport

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:11 AM

Divination is like that " helicoptor view " that the Witch may have a bigger picture to look at, I think, then make clearer choices as to what benefits the Path and the Witch.


Regards,
Gypsy


I like that! very clever


#9 DarqsAngel

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:30 AM

I have used the explanation that divination is like a mirror that allows us to clearly see the path we are on. If you do nothing to change the path then X is your likely outcome. If you don't like the way it looks, do something different.

a.k.a. What Michele Said. :smile:

Edited by DarqsAngel, 18 January 2013 - 02:32 AM.

Your mileage may vary...

#10 Athena

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 05:18 AM

Michelle pretty much nailed it.

My belief in free will means that the future isn't really set but then I also believe time isn't liinear and in parallel universes so it gets really mixed up for me. However free will trumps all so nothing is set in stone. I think when we see the future we ourselves usually can't change it but others can by making diffrent choices.


#11 Jevne

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

Michelle pretty much nailed it.

My belief in free will means that the future isn't really set but then I also believe time isn't liinear and in parallel universes so it gets really mixed up for me. However free will trumps all so nothing is set in stone. I think when we see the future we ourselves usually can't change it but others can by making diffrent choices.


I am confused by the last statement. Why not? I change the future for myself all the time, lest why use divinatory tools at all. Isn't that akin to a movie theater showing the final scene of a crappy movie and then forcing you to sit through it from the beginning, and telling you that you can't do anything about it. :)


#12 Athena

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:02 PM

I'm not saying you can't change it just that its difficult to do.

#13 Jevne

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 05:33 PM

I'm not saying you can't change it just that its difficult to do.


I guess my issue with that is that it seems to correlate to the concepts of fate or destiny, which I do not subscribe to. I agree that there are a lot of players to contend with, but a firm belief that I can easily change my future at any time gives me an insane amount of power.


#14 Aurelian

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 05:52 PM

I really have to agree with Jev here....I personally don't use divination except for very rarely, as I am not so great at it. My personal philosophy is to decide what it is I want, and bend my magic and life to that purpose, to achieve that result, and it has served so far in life.
"The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning." - Cormac McCarthy

#15 CrowMusings

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:39 PM

Similar to others, this is what I tell new clients. The future is not set in stone, what I see right now is what direction you're going in right now and the outcome of that. I believe everything happens for a reason, and I believe you are sitting here because there is something you need to hear. It is up to you to take that information and let nature take it's course, or you can do something to change that future if it's something you don't like. What is most important (when reading tarot with the spread i use) is what from your past is causing you to make the decisions you are now and how you can strengthen that if you're making good decisions, or work on taking the power away from that thing in your past. I always felt that knowing how you got here is important in getting to where you want to go.

#16 Athena

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:06 AM

Maybe this is just based on my owne experiances but while I see the future in dream walks I find it very difficult to change it. I am a huge believer in free will and that the choices we make today write tomorrow's future not some arbitrary destiny. Maybe it's because I only see snipits so knowing where to intervine is difficult for me.

#17 Deminotus

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:35 AM

I agree with michele and gypsy, very good explantations. There are only a few times when i have read for certian people using taro, that the path was set for the the momment. The only valueable reading i could give them is how to handle the situations results after it has happened. Usually if i have alot of major aracana cards in the reading its a event that has to or is more than likely going to play out. Some people believe major arcana symbolize cosmic forces and forces of fate at work. Some of them are changeable and mutable, but some are fixed and it becomes about how to handle it after the event have passed. I personally believe we are tested at times. May it be the spirits or gods, certian paths are layed out in front of us to test our medal and to make us stronger in certian aspects of our lifes. Thats only my personal belief.

Edited by Deminotus, 26 January 2013 - 09:18 AM.

all that glitters isn't gold

#18 Jevne

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

I personally believe we are tested at times. May it be the spirits or gods, certian paths are layed out in front of us to test our medal and to make us stronger in certian aspects of our lifes. Thats only my personal belief.


Perhaps, it is the fact that I do not walk a diety-based path, but the whole idea that an entity, be it god-form, spirit-form, or living human being for that matter would bother to play head games to teach my imperfect, naughty-bad self a lesson is extremely unsettling. Isn't that the line of thinking used by xtians? For example, xtians might say to someone, I know your life royally fucking sucks, but god is "testing" you, cause he loves you and wants you to be a better person. When people have problems, it is because of their choices and/or the choices of others that they happen to come in contact with, not because someone or something is trying to control their lives. Also, I would be amiss, if I didn't point out, that the Universe just going about its business can cause problems; not like earthquakes (big problems for some) occur to challenge us.

Anyway, shit happens, and sometimes that shit does teach us something, but my annoyingly logical brain and admittedly control freak personality find the implications of we are being tested difficult to reconcile. My first thought, honestly, is who the fuck is that entity to decide what is best for me? The living humans and the spirits that I work with treat me with respect. They treat me like a grown-up, responsible for my own choices and with the capacity to change course, if I happen to get myself into any trouble. They counsel. They guide. They make suggestions, which I may or may not pay attention to, but they don't purposely put me on a potentially damaging path to test my medal. If they would do something like that I personally would not work with them.


#19 Michele

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:29 PM

I believe that shit happens, but I also believe that some things within the hedge wait and watch for one to "prove" themselves. They didn't create the situation as a test (that I know of) or even created it at all - I usually create my own situations by things I have or have not done - but they wait to see how it is handled - do I put my money where my mouth is, do I ignore my beliefs and just let the future "happen" or do I seek the counsel of the ancestors, do I listen to their lore, do I notice opportunities, do I remember my promises... do I do things (magic or otherwise) based on this insight and counsel to guide the present into the more desirable of the possible futures... or do I just sit back and mope and become a victim of my own wishes un-acted upon.

M

Edited by Michele, 26 January 2013 - 02:29 PM.


#20 firesong

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:17 PM

My view is pretty uncomplicated. Divination is like a snapshot, and it will be accurate as long as everything it's based on remains the same, a bit like "pre-karma". You have certain events in your life which will, depending on whether they are skillful or unskillful, manifest certain ends. With karma we can use it as a metric to avoid repeating unpleasant results by analyzing the actions, and thoughts that led us to the undesired end. In divination, we look at the end result of our current karmic flow if it remains unchanged. I'm not speaking of karma in a New Age sense but in a traditional Buddhist one. This is also purely my own perspective.